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Muslim immigrants - what they're not telling you - Printable Version

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Muslim immigrants - what they're not telling you - andrew_o - 01-05-2018

Essential viewing:




RE: Muslim immigrants - what they're not telling you - Herring - 01-05-2018

So the issue is not just that they're first cousins, but their family carries this genetic disease. It was not exactly rare throughout history for first cousins to marry, and most of the time there were no problems.

Interestingly, of 50 US states, 24 ban it and 26 permit it (wikipedia).


RE: Muslim immigrants - what they're not telling you - andrew_o - 01-06-2018

(01-05-2018, 11:48 PM)Herring Wrote: So the issue is not just that they're first cousins, but their family carries this genetic disease.  It was not exactly rare throughout history for first cousins to marry, and most of the time there were no problems.

Interestingly, of 50 US states, 24 ban it and 26 permit it (wikipedia).



There is a thing called 'genetic drift' whereby genes randomly mutate over generations in minor ways which are never expressed in the phenotype in normal circumstances because they're recessive. We all carry them to some degree and it mostly doesn't matter. 

But when you have a millennium of inbreeding such as these communities have experienced, those recessive genes can become expressed in the phenotype because it is paired with the same gene from the other parent. And then you've got birth defects.

So the 'genetic disease' you refer to will always appear when there is inbreeding. In an population group.

What the article didn't mention was the less obvious effect:  I would bet money there is also a lower average IQ in the community as a result of cousin marriage. But no TV channel is going to go near that topic!


RE: Muslim immigrants - what they're not telling you - brunt - 01-06-2018

(01-05-2018, 11:48 PM)Herring Wrote: So the issue is not just that they're first cousins, but their family carries this genetic disease.  It was not exactly rare throughout history for first cousins to marry, and most of the time there were no problems.

Interestingly, of 50 US states, 24 ban it and 26 permit it (wikipedia).

Another video:



I am not a geneticist, but I have strong interests in both genetics and statistics.

I think that the real problem is not so much having first cousins marry sometimes, but rather when it happens over a whole lotta generations. I haven't worked out the math, but I believe that asymptotically it approaches a lack of genetic diversity to be equivalent to breeding brothers and sisters - particularly in somewhat closed communities.


RE: Muslim immigrants - what they're not telling you - andrew_o - 01-06-2018

So I guessed right - cousin marriage is impacting IQ.

I kayak with a bunch of guys who are biologist researchers and one is a genome modeller - I must talk to him about it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/11723308/First-cousin-marriages-in-Pakistani-communities-leading-to-appalling-disabilities-among-children.html

First cousin marriages in Pakistani communities leading to 'appalling' disabilities among children

Baroness Flather, a cross-bench peer, says it is 'absolutely appalling' that first cousin marriages in Pakistani communities are leading to 'so much disability among children'

Couples who are getting married should be forced to have a DNA test first to ensure they are not cousins amid growing concern about incest within Pakistani communities, Britain's first Asian peer has claimed.

Baroness Flather, a former Tory who now sits as a cross-bencher, said in the House of Lords that it is "absolutely appalling" that first cousin marriages in Pakistani communities are leading to "so much disability among children".

She said: "There are a lot of first-cousin marriages in certain communities, particularly among Pakistanis who come from the Pakistani Kashmir area. We know so much about DNA now, but there is so much disability among the children, which is absolutely appalling.

"You go to any such family and there will be four or five children, at least one or two of whom will have some disability. That is absolutely unacceptable, and if we cannot do anything about it, is it fair to the children?"

Baroness Flather, a former barrister who was born in the Pakistani city of Lahore when it was part of India, said: "Never mind the parents — it is not fair to the children that they should be allowed to become disabled because of a social practice. It is a social practice which does not belong in today’s age, when we know so much about DNA. There should at least be some rule which says that you must have a DNA examination before your marriage can be registered."

First-cousin marriages, which are are legal in the UK, are practised within Britain’s Pakistani community, as well as among some Arab and African families. Medical data previously suggested that while British Pakistanis were responsible for 3 per cent of all births, they accounted for 30 per cent of British children born with a genetic illness.

The noble Baroness Flather also raised concerns about Sharia law, under which women struggle to get a divorce.

She said: "I know I am probably talking about Muslims, but we now have this business of sharia marriages. It is appalling that the man can get a divorce by just asking for it, while a woman may have to wait years, and may still not get it. She can get a British divorce, but not a sharia divorce.

Noble Lords may ask, “Why does that matter?”, and I asked that of those women. They replied, “It means that we can’t go to Pakistan”.

"If they go there, the husband can come and take the children away, no matter what age they are. In any case, the husband can take the children from a sharia marriage when they are seven. All marriages should be automatically registered in this country. It is not fair to the women that some British women — they are British women when they come here — are treated in a different and unacceptable way from others."

What a fucked up culture!

Would you want to let these people into your country?


RE: Muslim immigrants - what they're not telling you - silverfish - 01-06-2018

What about Ashkenazi Jews, who have a higher average intelligence than us, and tend to keep to closed communities? Maybe their communities are not as closed as people think? They value intelligence and their children have to study.


RE: Muslim immigrants - what they're not telling you - andrew_o - 01-06-2018

(01-06-2018, 07:23 PM)silverfish Wrote: What about Ashkenazi Jews, who have a higher average intelligence than us, and tend to keep to closed communities?  Maybe their communities are not as closed as people think?  They value intelligence and their children have to study.

If you listened to the video above which was posted by Brunt, you learn that Ashkenazi  are aware of the problem and carefully manage marriages using DNA tests.


RE: Muslim immigrants - what they're not telling you - silverfish - 01-07-2018

(01-06-2018, 07:29 PM)andrew_o Wrote:
(01-06-2018, 07:23 PM)silverfish Wrote: What about Ashkenazi Jews, who have a higher average intelligence than us, and tend to keep to closed communities?  Maybe their communities are not as closed as people think?  They value intelligence and their children have to study.

If you listened to the video above which was posted by Brunt, you learn that Ashkenazi  are aware of the problem and carefully manage marriages using DNA tests.

Sorry I hadn't listened to either of the videos.  When I read your post I listened to a bit of the first video that you posted, but found it too depressing, I couldn't listen any more.

From the tiny bit I know about Ashkenazi Jews, they do have some genetic problems from inbreeding, but low intelligence isn't one of them.

I think I also remember reading somewhere that Amish have similar genetic problems from inbreeding. And of course the Royal Families of Europe are all related to each other, and have terrible genetic diseases like haemophilia and porphyria; they do obviously marry outside their own circles, especially nowadays, so the fresh blood could be a good thing.

In all the cases of Amish and what the video is showing about Pakistanis, it doesn't seem to be saying anything about low intelligence but that there is a very high chance of getting these awful genetic diseases that cause people to lose their sight and all kinds of things. Maybe the bit about low intelligence was further along in the video....I was finding it so painful to watch I had to switch off.


RE: Muslim immigrants - what they're not telling you - andrew_o - 01-07-2018

Things are only depressing if you chose to be depressed.


RE: Muslim immigrants - what they're not telling you - silverfish - 01-07-2018

(01-07-2018, 01:55 AM)andrew_o Wrote: Things are only depressing if you chose to be depressed.
I had had enough of that video and turned it off.