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Full Version: Trump is right about mail in voting.
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If mail in voting is allowed there will never again be free and fair elections in the US.

If it's such a great idea, why wasn't it used in the past?  After all, the Post Office has been around for as long as the country has.

Voting should at the least take some minimal effort.  Showing up at a polling place to vote is the least of the qualifications a voter should have.

There is NO WAY to stop ballot harvesting if mail in voting becomes the norm.  Votes will be increasingly coerced and/or suppressed by political operators.

Shouldn't everyone want the vote to be honest and above suspicion?  Ease of voting should not be the major criteria  about how to conduct a general election.  The Intergrity and fairness of elections, where people have confidence in the system and results, should be the primary focus.  No elected candidate wants to be open to accusations the election was stolen by the other side.  Even now, many make such accusations.  Why in the world would any political party want to create such mayhem by mail in voting unless they have nefarious reasons?
(07-19-2020, 07:17 PM)doubletroublejim Wrote: [ -> ]If it's such a great idea, why wasn't it used in the past?  After all, the Post Office has been around for as long as the country has.

Voting by mail has been around since the American Civil War 1861-1865.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_vot...ted_States

There is a paper trail for voting by mail.

The major concern for Republicans is that if people can vote by mail, then they will do so.  And the more people vote, the more often Republicans lose.
The article is referring to absentee ballots often used by the military and others who are not able to get to the polls. Not anywhere close to mail in voting by the general public in an election.

The rules for voting are already way too lax. Doing this will call the validity of the vote into question even more. Do the Dems really want that?
There will already be myriad lawsuits over this election.
(07-20-2020, 12:05 AM)doubletroublejim Wrote: [ -> ]The article is referring to absentee ballots often used by the military and others who are not able to get to the polls.  Not anywhere close to mail in voting by the general public in an election.

The rules for voting are already way too lax.  Doing this will call the validity of the vote into question even more.  Do the Dems really want that?
There will already be myriad lawsuits over this election.

Rolleyes  I was only pointing  out that voting by mail has been around for 155 years, you implied it was some new fangled invention.

Modern voting by mail involves bar codes, and there is even a paper trail.

Trump is indeed working very hard to discredit the vote.  But then he lost the popular vote to Hilary. Now that he has a "record" he will probably lose by an even bigger number to Sleepy Joe in 2020.
So I take it you're all for vote by mail?
The evidence from the UK is that postal voting allows not just fraud, but undermines the secrecy of the ballot, thereby allowing local thugs to 'stand over' voters. This has occurred in the UK with Pakistani ghettos where 'community leaders' demand people apply for postal votes.

The secrecy of the ballot is paramount - I witnessed the alternative in the UK in the 70's when I started out in industry. Union thugs would organize a strike ballot in the car park of the factory and those against had to put their hands up....and suffer the consequences.
(07-20-2020, 04:35 AM)andrew_o Wrote: [ -> ]The evidence from the UK is that postal voting allows not just fraud, but undermines the secrecy of the ballot, thereby allowing local thugs to 'stand over' voters. This has occurred in the UK with Pakistani ghettos where 'community leaders' demand people apply for postal votes.

The secrecy of the ballot is paramount - I witnessed the alternative in the UK in the 70's when I started out in industry. Union thugs would organize a strike ballot in the car park of the factory and those against had to put their hands up....and suffer the consequences.

What could be more secret than vote by mail ? ?

The least secret method is the one you selected, a show of hands.

I have yet to see any "bully boys" hanging around the mail box, but hey, I know you Brits are different.

[Image: wowbruh69-e1459432992747.jpg]
(07-20-2020, 12:18 PM)aqua Wrote: [ -> ]What could be more secret than vote by mail ? ?

The least secret method is the one you selected, a show of hands.

I have yet to see any "bully boys" hanging around the mail box, but hey, I know you Brits are different.

.
You do realize there are other options than "mail" or "hands" ? right, we've done it for hundreds of years.


as to the "bully boys" hanging around the mailbox, you're putting those sarcastic false words on it to confuse.

I've explained how it works HERE on this Board for DECADES and repeatedly
and YOU KNOW this DAMN WELL.


on the off chance anyone cares (few seem to) here it is again
Unlike you I DO see the bullying of mail in ballots, with my own two eyes and many many times.

The union hall across the street, comes in to my place to eat, with a pile of ballots and/or people and they sit down and fill them out. Normally pre signed and otherwise blank.
OR the group fills them out and they call check them before sealing them into envelopes.
in between these meetings, I over hear customers (I have a thousand a day) talking of how they "HAD to turn over their ballots or lose their union job".



play Ostrich and continue to be IGNORANT all you want, but here is the first hand evidence. You can deny MY claims (but don't deny I'm making them) to my SELF I know full well what I see and hear
(07-20-2020, 12:49 PM)DaveGillie Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-20-2020, 12:18 PM)aqua Wrote: [ -> ]What could be more secret than vote by mail ? ?

The least secret method is the one you selected, a show of hands.

I have yet to see any "bully boys" hanging around the mail box, but hey, I know you Brits are different.

.
You do realize there are other options than "mail" or "hands" ? right, we've done it for hundreds of years.


as to the "bully boys" hanging around the mailbox, you're putting those sarcastic false words on it to confuse.

I've explained how it works HERE on this Board for DECADES and repeatedly
and YOU KNOW this DAMN WELL.


on the off chance anyone cares (few seem to) here it is again
Unlike you I DO see the bullying of mail in ballots, with my own two eyes and many many times.

The union hall across the street, comes in to my place to eat, with a pile of ballots and/or people and they sit down and fill them out. Normally pre signed and otherwise blank.
OR the group fills them out and they call check them before sealing them into envelopes.
in between these meetings, I over hear customers (I have a thousand a day) talking of how they "HAD to turn over their ballots or lose their union job".



play Ostrich and continue to be IGNORANT all you want, but here is the first hand evidence. You can deny MY claims (but don't deny I'm making them) to my SELF I know full well what I see and hear

There are lots of options.

Standing in line for 4 hours during a pandemic is the way some want it.  Others don't.

Some people  don't want to be bothered with voting.

Some may pack your restaurant and fill out their ballots over lunch at one of your tables.  If you don't want union folks in your restaurant doing that, kick them out.

As for your description of Union balloting in Flint, well, most of the country is not as crappy as Flint.

And no, there are no bully boys standing around my mail box.
Aqua, I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse or what

Mail voting is open to massive abuse, especially for someone living in a rough area. People are TOLD by the local 'community leaders' (= thugs) to request voting by mail. Then they stand over you while you vote for the person of THEIR choice, or in some cases just take the voting papers off you and complete them themselves.

If you lose the secret ballot, you lose your democracy - it's that simple.
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